The Inner Work Of Marriage with Lisa Kneller

Meet my friend Lisa Kneller!  She is a midlife marriage coach this conversation gets really honest about what actually keeps love alive over decades.

Lisa's work is all about doing the inner work to build a strong, lasting marriage.  Get ready to be inspired by the way she talks of her own marriage and the role identity, purpose, and direction play in building a lasting relationship.

Be on the lookout for the powerful writing practice she shares to create your own marriage declaration - a practical way to your relationship feeling safe and life-giving again.

Lisa shares her book, The Inner Work of Love: 10 Understandings for Lasting Relationships.

If you are seeking a healthier marriage, a stronger friendship, and ideas you can put into practice today, you will love this conversation.

Subscribe, share this with someone who cares about lasting relationships, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Check out Lisa's work:

Book The Inner Work of Love

Marriage Mastery YouTube Channel

Marriage Mastery Podcast

Book A DISCOVERY Call Now

Learn more about Carla:
Website: https:/www.carlareeves.com/

Get The Differently Journal:
https://carlareeves.com/journal

Connect on LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reevescarla/
Connect on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@differentlythepodcast

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Transcript

A Different Way To Think

SPEAKER_01 0:00

A deep change in the way that we live requires a deep change in the way that we think. I'm Carla Reeves, and this is differently. Hey everyone, I have a special guest, a special friend, a kind of a reconnection for us too here on the show today. And we're going to talk about marriage, which I am so passionate about. And I was just telling Lisa, like I don't talk about that enough on the podcast. And so I am so excited to have Lisa Neller here with me today. Welcome, Lisa. Thank you, Carla. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy that you're here and that we're reconnecting too. We were just talking that we met before 2019, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yeah, probably a few years before that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

So yeah. So we met through a mutual friend. And then we did do a little bit of coaching work together when you were starting your coaching business. And then now you have really chosen a focus for your work. And I'd love for you to just tell us a little bit about you and the season of life you're in and what you're doing today.

Lisa’s Marriage Story And Mission

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Yeah. Well, the season of life I'm in is what's some people would have called the golden years years ago. I now feel like it's midlife, but it's not. It's like I'm a little past that. Um, I have been married 40 years, and literally this year we're celebrating in July our 40th wedding anniversary. So um, so that's been fun. And and let me just say it hasn't been perfect. And you know, we we had a fight at Christmas time, and two Christmases before that we had a fight. So it's like it's a roller coaster ride all the way through. And um, and you know, I about uh a little over a year ago, I chose to sort of focus on marriage and relationships because that is such a passion of mine. So I started coaching in 2020 after years of teaching yoga and years of personal development. Um, and then I took a academic program at the master's level that was all about life coaching. I was doing just the general coaching kind of thing, you know, like a lot of coaches do. They're like, oh, I can help everyone, you know. And then at some point I realized, no, I I need to utilize what I'm what I'm passionate about and what I'm sort of gifted at, and that is relationships. And so that happened, uh, like I said, a little over a year ago. And, you know, I'm just really trying to help people and educate them and get the word out. And there's a whole bunch of us, right? There's a lot of us helpers out there, and there's a lot of uh there are a lot of experts out there, uh, internationally renowned psychotherapists and people like that. And you wonder, like, do we need another relationship helper? And my answer to that is yes, we do, because not all of those people are accessible. So um, the more of us out there that are helping other people in this area or even in just general coaching, the better. So it's it's good for our mental health, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Well, I love that. And it's it's so inspiring to one know that you've been married for that long. Like that is in and of itself, I feel like says so much. And that you actually enjoy your marriage because I don't know what I find as a coach is like just painting a picture for people that marriage can be life-giving is like something people don't see or hear very often, that it can be good. Yeah, really good. Yeah. Yeah, really good. And so I'm curious for you, because I've had a journey there too. Um, what was what was the fairy tale for you? And what was what's the real marriage look like that is life-giving? Because I think we come into marriage like with the idea of a sort of the fairy tale, or at least I did, and I kind of had to like that kind of crashed and burned, and then something else got rebuilt, I think, in place of that. Was your journey similar, or what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yeah, I it did not look like a fairy tale for me for a couple of reasons. Number one, there was already a lot of divorce in my family. So while I haven't gone through it myself, I've been adjacent to it. My mother was um married twice. My brothers, well, all of my siblings have been divorced and remarried. One four times, one three times, one two times, and one married the same person twice. My grandparents, you know, so there's been a lot of that in my family. And I was like, I was a risk, honestly, when my husband married me. But um we also dated eight years. So we knew each other really well. We were older, we had uh a little bit of education, and those kinds of things statistically help couples who get married. So um, but there were things that I realized once I got married that um, you know, things I thought were okay to do in a marriage that were not okay. And let me just give you an example from Yeah, I would love that. Oh yeah, well, there are a couple. Um, there was the time I got in an argument with my husband and I said F you to him. And um it startled him, but also he didn't talk to me for a week. And I was like, what? It you know, it's just I just said this one thing, you know. So when we finally sat down to talk about it, um, he was just like, you know what, that's not something people say to each other when they love each other and when they're married. And that's just not okay. And so I was like, oh, okay, okay, okay, I get that, right? And so I didn't say it to him again until two years ago when I got really angry and justifiably so. I was mad about something and I blew up, and you know, eventually we got over that, and I apologized for saying it, but I also reminded him that I felt really justified, but that it wasn't me, it's not who I am, and I don't like being pushed to the point of of being not who I am. So um and and another thing, like for example, you know, I I would slam cabinets when I got mad. Well, that's something my mother modeled for me. And so I thought, well, that was okay, and maybe that did something, but it did nothing. So things like that that I had to like you say, unlearn. Like, what did I have to unlearn about marriage? Well, you you don't get to say those things if you want a happy marriage, and you need to you need to figure out your emotional reactivity.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

So true. Well, and I think you also speak to like things that may seem little, you know. Sometimes though, the little things are the big things, or those little things over time are what chip away at a marriage. And uh what I find a lot of times is people have chipped away so much that they and I was married and divorced um before I met my husband now, and those little things chip away and chip away and chip away, and then you're like, oh, I've fallen out of love, but actually you've just chipped away so much you can't see, you can't see anymore. Um, and I think that those little things and restoring integrity around those are so important that you speak of. What do you feel like in your work with people that like come up as like the greatest challenges in marriage? Well, show up again and again.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Well, there's two things that come to mind. The first is that usually we bring in some kind of baggage or trauma, and people have either big trauma or little trauma. And I'm just gonna define trauma as any event or anything that happens that you are not resourced to handle. And so there's a wide range of that, and we bring that into our relationships. That uh forms our um what we call adapt adaptive person, uh, or what Terry Real, who's a psychotherapist, calls the adaptive child. So we tend to react as if we are a child when we're in fact an adult, but we're reacting based on feelings that we've had from past trauma, right? So that's that's one thing. And then, like you were talking about chipping away at the marriage and or the relationship, and that can be just habitual stuff like neglect or not putting any thought into how you speak to your spouse or just getting away with stuff, and we do get away with stuff. There are very past relationships that allow us to be a continual nager or a continual complainer or someone who swears and gets away with it. So, um, so there's those two things. And the second thing really is part of not understanding relational skills. And I really feel like people need to address their trauma before they can address their relational skills, before they can really start to build those. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

It does. It does. And I think we maybe we come into marriage thinking that um that person is sort of gonna make all that better. And sometimes it does for a little while. And then those um that past hurt or trauma kind of rears its head. And I think that that's so important is like that there's individual work, I think is also what you're saying, right? That we have to do in order to thrive together as a couple. Um, you know, it's I and I I think I went into marriage the first time, like just thinking like you got married and and then it just kind of took care of itself. And and that is it is so much work um that I didn't realize there's a lot of work in marriage. Um, but that that work pays off so much over time. Um what is your favorite place like to work with people? And I know I didn't prep you with these questions, but that's why I kind of like how it goes organically. Um but like what what what are the places that you get excited and lit up to work with people or that you've seen like the biggest difference with people?

SPEAKER_00 11:06

I I I think it uh comes right down to their identity. So I like to go really deep because people don't really think of themselves as great or beautiful or innately wise or any of the uh characteristics that God gives us just as being humans. And so I like to get people to really remember who they are or who they can be. So we tend to lose this sense of identity over time, and we take on the identity of other people and or our spouse or whatever, and we don't really understand who we are. And a lot of what I like to do is talk about identity, purpose, and direction, because once you have your identity, like you know who you are, uh for you, Carla, as a child of God and someone who may not have faith the way you do, okay. Well, you're a child of this immense universe that has, you know, birthed you and you're a part of that. And so you if you can recognize that and understand that, then you can have a little bit more confidence in the way you go about life.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

I love that so much. Um so how do you how do you work with people around identity? Like when for somebody who doesn't know what that feels like, um how do you remind people? How do you get people to that place to remember, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Yes, that's such a great question. Because that leads me into a journaling, a journaling exercise that I know that you love. So I help people create what's called a declaration or an I am statement. These are not affirmations, they're statements that we come up with that we recognize this is who we are without our roles. So, for example, you know, I am love, I am patience, I am peace, I am kindness, I am goodness. You know where I'm going with that, right? That's biblical. I'm faithfulness, I'm gentleness, I'm self-control. And then um, you know, in addition to that, I am the universe ever expanding and fascinating. I am calm like the calmest water, and my spirit is effervescent. I am precious, I am deep like the ocean and open like the night sky. These are like these are like parts of my declaration. And I don't expect other people to write the same thing that I wrote, but there are what we call adjectives, and because we use language in our life, that we can draw upon language to get to that place of who we are. So, what I do is I help them create a list of those attributes about themselves, and then I ask them to write it out in three different ways. Uh you know, I am, Carla is, and she is. So, and then I ask them to memorize it. Well, not memorize it, but like record it and listen to it over and over and over again. Right. So that gets into your subconscious mind. And these are not these are not affirmations, these are not like, oh, I'm a millionaire when you're not, you know, these are thoughts that you think ring true for you.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

And they're also thoughts that you can grow into or I was gonna say, like a possibility to like live into. Exactly. That's so beautiful. Well, and I think like if I think back over my life, like having a vision of some kind, like for who I was as a mother and for who I am as a wife, and for how I show up in my business, that has been so like foundational because my fleshly self, my worldly self can or my past self can derail me so quickly. And to be able to remember, have something to hang on to that is like a guiding, like so you can posture yourself in that direction even when you don't feel like it. Because if you want to have a life-giving marriage, you you have to act in the face of your feelings, right? You have to act according to what you're committed to a lot of time when you don't want to. Yeah. Because you're committed to something bigger than you. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And I love that you're I love that you've brought the identity piece into the marriage work because it's it is so important. And I think for my marriage, like the faith piece and the God piece has been so instrumental because it keeps us from fighting each other. And instead, we can turn to God together and like work through something or find wisdom for something instead of battling each other.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah, for sure. I and I also want to say something about what when you talked earlier about um you didn't realize it was so much work. And that that statement has gone around the world a few times, you know, like, oh, if you're married, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Well, what is the work?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I love that. I'm so glad you're saying this.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

What are what is we don't get a manual when we get married? Nobody hands us the guide that says, you know, of course, there's lots of books and things out there that help us along. Um one little book that helped me was um Don Miguel Rui's, what's that book, The Four Agreements? Yes. I mean a simple little book, right? But that book really helped me in my relationships. So I think the work is, and you didn't ask me this question, but I the work is self-study and um and uh learning about who you are, where you came from, what your triggers are, what your trauma is, you know, who you want to be and and who you are at your identity, what's your purpose even in being married? Like the purpose of being married, we have a purpose, right? For that. And then once you have that purpose and you understand, oh, I'm supposed to experience this in in a relationship, and then you can have some direction on where to go with that.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

I love that. So speak to so what something I see come up with clients is, and this was really hard for me too, young in my marriage, was like making space for his identity and making space for like who he is when I maybe didn't like how he was behaving or what he was doing. And that was that's really been something that has to be able to give him space to be and grow into his identity was one of the hardest things, but also has given me the most freedom and like ability to love him in bigger ways.

Writing A Marriage Declaration Together

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Um what you're talking about is thought work about your husband, about your spouse. Like you you're giving him space, but also you're thinking um you're you're not thinking the negative things about him. You're you're you're thinking about the reality of him, right? And this leads me to the second part of that I am declaration, which is to have a marriage document or a marriage declaration. And do you mind if I share a little bit of mine with you? Oh my gosh, I would love that. Because this is, you know, this is part of the.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

I think it helps people to grab a hold of like, what is that and what would that look like and what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 19:12

For sure. Um, uh first of all, uh just about my husband's identity, I will say that he's always loved himself. And I've always felt that he's just always had a solid sense of himself, and that's comforting for me because it's like when you have an animal, you know, the animal wants to know you're the boss, wants to know you're the loving caretaker, right? Um, you got to be confident in that, and so I am confident in my husband. So I start, I decided to create this document, and I'm just gonna read a few of the statements I have because I have I'm not gonna read all of them, but um, I start with I am love, I lead with love, I am loving to my beloved. My heart expands when my lover is nearby. He still lights me up after decades of togetherness. My husband is my friend and protector, he always has my back. I am joyful and fun with my husband. He is fun and funny, he makes me laugh often. My husband deserves to be respected, loved, admired, and adored. We are gentle in language indeed. We use our heads and hearts when expressing ourselves. My husband is committed to me, our relationship, and our marriage. He does things to surprise and delight me. I do the same for him. My husband is my soulmate. We were meant to be together. So that's a part of what I wrote. And I have to tell you, I I shared it with him.

unknown 20:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Oh my gosh. That is so beautiful. Yeah, he came in and I I just sent it to him via email. I'm like, hey, I wrote this, you know, uh about our about our marriage. And he came in and just gave me a big hug and a kiss and said, Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

And um so anyway, that is so beautiful, Lisa. Really, like, really, really, really like to be married 40 years and to be um sending that to him, like that is so beautiful, and something I hope like whoever is listening, like paints a picture of what is possible, you know, that you can fall in love over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Absolutely. Yeah. I love that you said that. What is possible? Because that's that's what we're here to help people do, is find that possibility.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah. Wow. So, what are the some of the things you had to set down or let go in order for that to be possible?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Ego, for sure. Yes, you know, I mean, one of the biggest uh um damaging things to relationships. Is contempt and criticism and all that kind of thing. And we have to let that go. We have to, we have to never think we're better than our partner. We're equal in value and worth. And we may have a lot of differences and we may not be compatible. And if that's the case, you know, sometimes I'm like, I'm not against divorce. Like if you can't really pull it together for both of you, maybe it's not meant to be or whatever. But I just think you need to really give your spouse the benefit of the doubt. He is equally as as important as you are. And um you just have to do the work and figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah. Well, and I think men want to play that role for women. Um, I my husband has kind of taught me that. Like they want to be that protector, they want to be that leader, they want to be a safe space for you where you can let down. And I think our culture, and as women, has, you know, kind of fed us this story of like, you know, be the boss babe and do all the things and be so strong and be so busy. And um, I think women are craving to have that space to let down, but often we don't let our men play that role. And I remember reading this book by Allison Armstrong. Have you heard of her? I have, yeah. You have? Yeah. I can't remember the name of her book. Um anyways, in that book, she said something like as women, we compare our husbands to the perfect woman. And they will always disappoint. That will always we will always be disappointed, instead of allowing them to be what be in their design. And I thought that was so crazy. Like that really struck me. And there's a book I have to tell you about, Lisa. It's called Loving Him Strong. Um, and I think you would love it. It's a small but mighty read. Um and I think you would love it. And your clients are writing it down right now. Yeah, loving him strong. Loving him strong. I don't remember their name, but it's a couple, and they wrote two books, and that's the one for the woman. Um, but it's a beautiful read.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

I love that. You know, I I understand men want to be leaders in their relationship. And I think women can be leaders too, but I agree. With with humility, right? Like, like lead with humility and lead with grace.

unknown 24:32

Okay.

Midlife Pressure And Gray Divorce

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, so you mentioned something about um when you and I talked about midlife and how that affects a marriage. Um, and so I'd love to hear what you have to say about that. Because it's an interesting time.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

I guess it's one of the most challenging times. Yeah, because you know, you've been in the weeds, right? You've been raising children typically. You're raising children, you're going to all the events, you're both working, you're exhausted. Um, and then in midlife, your you your hormones change. You know, women go through perimenopause and then and then many pause menopause. And um men also they have uh uh issue with their identity, and that's why they call, you know, men have these midlife crises. My husband went out and bought a red car during midlife, and it was real thing. It is a real thing, and um, and I think we we tend to part part of that is just losing focus on the relationship. Like we just let that part go. And so that's unfortunate because once you start letting that go, it can be hard to rein it back in. And there's also there's more stuff. There's caregiving, there's retirement potential retirement, and what are we gonna do, and money and finances, and all that stuff. So it is a really tough time, and I think you have to be really grounded to get through that smoothly. So, so disconnection habit, you know, happens through the habitual neglect or whatever that goes on through midlife, and then you get to a place after that where you know, now gray divorce is a big thing. I don't know if you've heard of gray divorce, but like no, I haven't. Statistically, um people who've been married for decades, like they're in their 50s and 60s, are now getting divorced because they let all that go, you know? So now they're just like life's too short.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Oh, it's like gray, meaning like a the stage of life that you have gray hair, sort of the time of life divorce. I got it.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yes.

Rebuilding Friendship Through Shared Time

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Yes. Yeah, wow. Well, and I think that goes back to the work, right? Like that's part of the work is cultivating that connection and through all the changes in life. I know um, like during COVID, we um our boys were older at that point, and we started going on hikes together, and we did so many hikes, like two-hour hikes. And what that did, like we didn't know, we were just going hiking. But what ended up happening is because we were by ourselves for that extended period of time, we talked about things that we never would have talked about, like just things I didn't know about him from his childhood stories, or and we really like built our friendship again after raising our boys. And that was so important for this time, new time of our life. Like we are having more fun together because we restored that friendship.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Oh, I love that. That's beautiful, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

And I guess that's that is part of the work, right? Is keeping that connection alive. It doesn't just stay alive on its own.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

It doesn't. You have to talk, you have to keep talking. I mean, talk some more, talk some more, and you have to pat each other on the butt once in a while, and you know, say something nice and yeah, consciously and make time and make time.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

I um I saw something in the Bible, and it was it was something, and then in the Bible notes, I don't remember what scripture I was in, but it was talking about genuine love, and it said, genuine love requires concentration and effort. And I thought that was so good and so true.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

It is so true. And um, I have defined love with so many other adjectives, you know, because we think of love as just this feeling, but it's so much more. It's leadership, it's protection, um, it's kindness. There's so many things love is. And it's good to ask ourselves, are we being that?

The Inner Work Of Love Book

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Are we being that? I loved your questions around that, like even just the um the peace, love. You know, a lot of times I'll just ask myself, like, what would love do? Or what would confidence do? Or what would peace do? And that often gives me something brand new, you know. Yes. So good. Um, well, I would love you've written a book, so tell us about your book.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Oh, okay. So um the book is called The Inner Work of Love: 10 Understandings for Lasting Relationships. And what it is, is it's just it's just a broad look at some of the things that you want to consider about relationships. And um, so it's it's not super detailed, it's short and sweet. And I've gotten a lot of positive feedback from it. So I think it can be helpful.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

And I love that. So those were like 10 understandings that like you kind of reflected on in your own marriage that made an impact. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

I'm putting you on the spot because I didn't prepare you for this, but could you read us something, like one of them or share one of them? Would that be easy?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Sure. I mean, I'll just um I'll just go to chapter two, um, and just read a paragraph or two. So we every relationship begins in the mind. Thoughts about yourself, your partner, your worth, and what's possible in love are the seeds of your relational reality. If your thoughts are rooted in fear, scarcity, or unworthiness, they will shape how you show up. If your thoughts are grounded in love, curiosity, and openness, your relationships will reflect that. Thoughts lead to feelings, feelings drive behavior, behavior creates patterns, and those patterns become the habits that define our relationships. This is why doing the inner work of examining our thoughts and beliefs is so powerful. It's not about controlling every thought, it's about noticing them and choosing which ones we want to give power and attention to.

Thought Inquiry Instead Of Assumptions

SPEAKER_01 31:11

I love that. I was just on a call this morning with a client, and she we were talking about her marriage, and she was saying, um, you know, but how if it's a thought that like um like how do I know if that thought, I need to give it attention, even if it's like a negative one. Like she didn't want to just shut the door on it. And I was saying to her, like, the way that I see it is kind of like your thoughts are like clouds in the sky. Like, you we don't have to necessarily block them out, but you God has given us agency and free will and choice over which ones we allow to lead. And what you're saying is like that is so important for marriage. Like, what thoughts are leading the way you show up in your marriage? Like, just that question alone is so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Yeah, I thought I think thought work is really the key to a successful marriage because let's just say your husband walks out the door, doesn't say goodbye to you before he goes off to work. And it could be a million different reasons why, right? And then we make the assumptions, we have all the thoughts, and we're just like, oh, I'm sure he's he's mad at me or he's being a jerk or whatever. So we do need to take every thought, not every thought, but most thoughts to inquiry and just say, is that true? You know, what can I absolutely believe it's true? And you know that's Byron Katie's work. Um, but yeah, you're on point, Carla. That makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

It makes so much sense, and we can spin out so quickly, or even ask, like, hey, you left quickly, like, is everything okay? Like, often that'll just clear it up so quickly. For sure. I mean, sometimes my husband can just look give a certain look or move a certain way, and I might be spinning in my thoughts, you know. We've gotten to where it's like, wait a minute, that just happened and you said this, or you did this, and I'm feeling this. Is that what you intended? And 90% of the time, it's so far off.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

I love that. That's getting clarity. That's just getting clarity. And I I feel it too. Even after 40 years, I'll see a look on my husband's face and I'll be like, oh no. Exactly. Yes.

Intimacy Rituals That Keep You Close

SPEAKER_01 33:23

You can have like a physical response in your body. Yeah. So powerful. Um, okay, so let's talk a little bit about intimacy. So, because I think that's such a huge piece. I mean, I've seen it watching in my first marriage and watching clients and friends over the years, like that is one of the places that just can start to get farther and farther apart to the point where people are married and sleeping in different rooms, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

So I'd love to hear your thoughts about that.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Um, I don't know if you're talking about intimacy in terms of just being close or intimacy in terms of sexuality. Um, and there's a lot of reasons why. Yeah. Well, there are reasons why people drift apart in that area. Sometimes in midlife, in particular, you know, women put on weight and they're self-conscious and they they don't feel comfortable in the bedroom. Um, sometimes they're going through illnesses, you know, and they're in and out of surgery, and that has an effect on intimacy. Um, and I would say probably more often than not, it's just neglect and it's just a way of thinking. And what is it that you want in that area of your life? And I just to give people hope and possibility, let me just say that at 68 and 69, hubby and I are still very intimate. And yeah, that's it, that's an important piece. But also in the last month, I've been sick and it just hasn't been as great this last month. But we'll get back to it. So yeah. So it's a delicate subject for a lot of people. Um, but but there's a lot to know about it. I mean, it's good for your health, it's good for your relationship. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Well, I think that's one of the things that I had to get over. And I think for a lot of women, it's like, oh, well, it's for them, it's for the man. Like he wants it more than I do. Or um, you know, it's it's really benefits him. And I I had to really challenge that thought for myself and really learn that it is for me too, and it is for us because it is the differentiator between any other relationship, right? Like, and and there is there, it is, I think, the part that can really bring energy and life and love to and fulfillment um to your whole life. Um, and it doesn't necessarily have to look like sex, it can just be holding each other, holding hands, or looking in each other's eyes, but like getting back to some of those things you did when you first met, right? That were so easy to do. You know, sometimes it gets hard to do. And I guess that's when you have to kind of look at what got in the way and it's now made it hard to do. Like those are the things you got to go pull out and look at and you know, pull apart, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that's why it's important to stay connected physically, like keep touching, you know, keep hugging, keep doing the things that feel good. Oftentimes, those things lead to greater intimacy and more and better sex. And educate yourself too. I think we need to educate ourselves on sex, um, just like we educate ourselves on our psyches and our in our relationships.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

So true. A funny story is coming to mind, but um, my parents, like my mom would make pot roast, and that was like their day to to be intimate. She had told us that later on in life when we were older. And so my sister and I like still laugh about pot roast because if I called her one day and she's making a pot roast, she wouldn't even have to say anything. I just knew that was their special day. But how cool! Like, we have to create rituals and things that to cultivate that part of our life.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Yeah, I had a friend tell me that um her husband, when he wanted it sex, he would light a candle. I'm like, oh wow, uh that could be dangerous. Lighting, you know, because it's like anytime you light a candle, right? It's like uh-oh.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

But it's true, like a simple thing can change, sort of change the mood. Um what else, Lisa? What haven't we touched on that you get excited to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Well, I don't know if you're gonna ask me this question or not, because um, but you were going to.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

I'm gonna ask you the very last question, the different question. But is there anything else that we didn't touch on that you were excited to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Well, I think um one of the things you had um brought up to me was that we we don't need a perfect partner, or I didn't, I have maybe said that in the past. I'm not even sure if I remember saying that, but it's true. None of us is perfect. Your partner doesn't have to be perfect. But here's the thing: you do need to have a receptive partner, you have to have someone who's at least open to listening to ideas and even to your transformation. So um I always think that a successful relationship, you share values, you have chemistry, and you have some intellectual connection with, and you also have a willingness to uh let you sharpen the saw or be sharpened, you know, both sides have to be willing to adjust a little bit. Um and that's for your own personal growth and development, really. Like you grow through the partnership. But yeah, if you have a partner that's really, really unwilling um not to not even go to therapy when things are really bad or to get coaching, that's not a good sign, but don't give up. You know, just keep trying until you exhaust all your possibilities.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah, I think that's so good. And I think that a lot of times um one person doing the work can make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Absolutely. I say a lot of times it only takes one to really shift the relationship, to be the instigator uh of positive change.

Turning You And Me Into Us

SPEAKER_01 39:56

I like that. That's a beautiful way to say it. Okay, so I think that I I just I love this conversation, Lisa. Um, I think there is just one more question, and that would be what does differently mean to you, Lisa?

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Well, I'm gonna go to something Terry Real. I mentioned him earlier. He's an internationally renowned psychotherapist, and he loves coaches too. He thinks coaches should be out there helping people as well as therapists. But he wrote a book called Us. Let me see if I have the exact title. Us. It's called Us, Getting Past You and Me to Build a Loving Relationship. And the reason he wrote it is yeah, the reason he wrote it is because um he sees culturally in our society that we've become an individualist, an individualistic society. Like everything's about you and me, me and him, you know, it's like we're not a team. And and Terry points out that if you work together consciously as a we, as an us, as a team, um, that's different. That's different than what is happening societally.

unknown 41:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

And I, you know, it's kind of funny because I used to think that a long time ago. It's me and Jim against the world. Right? Like, not against in a bad way.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

But it's like it's, you know, it's like you and your husband talking to God, like we need God because we got the world out there we're dealing with.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yes. That is so crazy, Lisa, because my husband used to say that when we first got together, he would say it's us against the world. And like that has completely different meaning to me today, because of what you just said. Like, yes, we have God and it is us against the world. And we do want the same things. Sometimes it doesn't feel like that, but if we can remember that, that is so helpful. That is so beautiful. Thank you, my friend. Thank you for shining your light and for just really being a possibility for what marriage can be. I'm so inspired myself just hearing about your marriage today.

Where To Find Lisa And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Well, it's been my pleasure, and I'm grateful to be your guest, Carla, anytime. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Okay, so before we go though, share your podcast where they can get your book and your website and find out about what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Okay, so my podcast is called Midlife Marriage Mastery. I love that. It's about getting good at the relationship. And um, you can find me at Lisa Nellercoaching.com. And what was the other thing you asked? Oh, my book, The Inner Work of Love, 10 Understandings for Lasting Relationships, is available on Amazon through, you know, Kindle or paperback. Okay, amazing. Yeah. So thank you, Kyle.

Final Takeaway And Free Class Invite

SPEAKER_01 42:54

So go check out Lisa and all the good things that she is doing. She's a gem. And Lisa, it was so fun to connect with you again and to everybody. Just have a beautiful day and go take something you heard and put it right into practice in your marriage today. Hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. Before you move on with your day, pause and capture one thought or takeaway that stood out to you. Write it down so it doesn't get lost in the noise. And if you're ready to go deeper, come join me in my free monthly class, conversation and guided writing to help you see things differently and move forward with clarity. Save your spot, Carlareeves.com forward slash free class.